tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post3084415819228889054..comments2024-03-28T22:32:50.562+00:00Comments on Liberal England: Scribbling on the constitution: A referendum on Europe was always a bad ideaJonathan Calderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-31653899866020961412016-06-25T21:21:51.789+01:002016-06-25T21:21:51.789+01:00Jonathan
I don't believe in referendums, but t...Jonathan<br />I don't believe in referendums, but the need to stay in the EU prompts my support for a second one as the only way through this mess. I don't want further referendums on anything else ever, but do want mandatory consultation on many more issues using tools like citizens juries and the like.<br />Pleas sign the petition. If over 17 million sign it we may get the chance to remain.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-81980118408035007522016-06-20T08:14:09.331+01:002016-06-20T08:14:09.331+01:00Fair enough. Here's an idea: why not hold a re...Fair enough. Here's an idea: why not hold a referendum of your readers on the topic? ;) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-45666707731893761892016-06-19T20:57:56.988+01:002016-06-19T20:57:56.988+01:00Anonymous (if you are the same Anonymous), you wro...Anonymous (if you are the same Anonymous), you wrote:<br /><br />"If you really believe that the population at large are so stupid, gullible, malleable (etc.) that they can't be trusted to vote, whether in referendums or in elections, why not come out and say so, instead of hiding behind the mask of high-minded policy-wonkery?"<br /><br />You think that is a fair account of my and Paul Evans' views: I think it is a caricature.<br /><br />Let's leave the other readers to judge.Jonathan Calderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-60414488085681895182016-06-19T08:53:14.487+01:002016-06-19T08:53:14.487+01:00Yes, it would be more interesting - if I hadn'...Yes, it would be more interesting - if I hadn't read several versions of Evans's arguments against referendums already, and if I hadn't noticed that Evans never actually addresses the point that those arguments apply equally to elections, making it legitimate to infer that, whether he is fully aware of it or not, he is actually arguing against democracy itself. The fact that you dismiss that criticism as a "caricature", and thus join him in evading it, speaks volumes. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-43298724937170703782016-06-18T13:07:18.559+01:002016-06-18T13:07:18.559+01:00Thanks Anonymous, I have edited the post.
As to t...Thanks Anonymous, I have edited the post.<br /><br />As to the rest of your comment, isn't it more interesting to engage with what people actually write rather than make up a caricature of it?Jonathan Calderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-4481714221492897332016-06-17T23:47:09.569+01:002016-06-17T23:47:09.569+01:00Correction needed: the piece from Slugger O'To...Correction needed: the piece from Slugger O'Toole was written, not by the Slugger himself, but by Paul Evans, who's written several similar pieces on assorted blogs over the years. <br />Personally I'm unconvinced, for the same reason as the first commenter on the piece at Slugger was: that every argument against referendums is also an argument against elections. The real question for Evans and those who think like him is this: if you really believe that the population at large are so stupid, gullible, malleable (etc.) that they can't be trusted to vote, whether in referendums or in elections, why not come out and say so, instead of hiding behind the mask of high-minded policy-wonkery?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-22188924978438116142016-06-17T21:10:08.298+01:002016-06-17T21:10:08.298+01:00This toxic referendum is an unintended consequence...This toxic referendum is an unintended consequence of an earlier referendum in the last Parliament.<br /><br />Cameron promised this referendum to protect his flank against UKIP in the 2015 election, where he feared UKIP syphoning off Tory votes in Labour-Tory marginals. It was probably misplaced because it subsequently turned out UKIP were as much of a threat to Labour.<br /><br />Had the 2015 election been fought under AV, that calculus would have been irrelevant.<br /><br />AV should never have been put to a referendum, but decided by Parliament like everything else.Tim (Kalyr)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00960811565368970485noreply@blogger.com