tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post763504048447625036..comments2024-03-18T15:52:46.631+00:00Comments on Liberal England: The Liberal Democrats have driven The Guardian madJonathan Calderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-79372437688122475332010-10-25T20:58:31.182+01:002010-10-25T20:58:31.182+01:00This really pinpoints my growing annoyance with th...This really pinpoints my growing annoyance with the Guardian since the election. The comments sections have become full of idiotic shrieking and actually make the 'Spectator's commenters look intelligent.<br />Until the election I was a devoted Guardian reader and "Lab turned Lib when they got too policey" voter. Still vote the same way but I might buy the 'Independent', even though their non-news coverage is godawful and they have no interesting columnists.<br /><br />There is a lot of this with-us-or-a-nazi attitude among my cousins in Wales. It's not worth my breath to defend a single atom of coalition policy to them (although I'm not getting behind the shoddy and small-minded faffing they've done with housing benefit but that's another rant)janenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-61325397771911155592010-10-25T18:01:03.929+01:002010-10-25T18:01:03.929+01:00Methinks this needs some elucidation by way of ana...Methinks this needs some elucidation by way of analysis of the money supply (which is what I'm hoping Wat Tyler will contribute on Burning our money).dreamingspirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00324207120279777521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-81126823150418829862010-10-25T11:37:57.400+01:002010-10-25T11:37:57.400+01:00Iannucci does acknowledge he voted Lib Dem though!...Iannucci does acknowledge he voted Lib Dem though!gregstonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-63349319912070228692010-10-24T21:59:16.897+01:002010-10-24T21:59:16.897+01:00When a small proportion of public expenditure ie w...When a small proportion of public expenditure ie working age benefits are repeatedly singled out for savage cuts in order to cut the deficit, whereas much larger items of expenditure ie state retirement pensions are increased at a higher rate than before, it's a fair conclusion to draw that such cuts are ideological.<br /><br />And I'm not sure how the total cost of bailing out the banks could be £9bn when the government bought £76bn worth of bank shares. The money for that (and the other costs) had to come from somewhere, the answer is eventually the national debt, the interest payments of which contribute towards the budget deficit.<br /><br />The idea that taxing the banks would make them leave UK is a traditional bogeyman; where would they go to get a better deal from a government? And the government owns quite large chunks of some of them, not sure they as shareholders would vote for such an exodus. Banks are a lot richer than disabled benefit claimants, they can reasonably be expected to pay for the mess they largely caused.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03710776765139258627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-46164319282319046042010-10-24T20:25:02.631+01:002010-10-24T20:25:02.631+01:00allnottinghambasearebelongtous
proves the point be...allnottinghambasearebelongtous<br />proves the point being made in the article. Nowhere does Jonathan argued that we 'need to wipe out the public sector' and I would be surprised if any Lib Dems or even more than a handful of Tories would favour such a thing.<br /><br />Likewise it is not a 'fact' that the cuts are ideological, it's an opinion. Again, I would be surprised if many Lib Dems in or out of the government saw the cuts as a matter of ideology rather than painful necessity. Some Tories may well see the cuts as ideological, others as pragmatic, so across the coalition there will be a range of views.<br /><br />But I suppose there is little point in trying to reason with those who regard their own opinions as unquestionable fact and to caricature reductions in public spending as a wish to wipe out the public sector altogether.Iain Sharpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07249331216466329232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-20186821980875852412010-10-24T12:21:44.415+01:002010-10-24T12:21:44.415+01:00allnottinghambasearebelongtous - you are mixed up ...allnottinghambasearebelongtous - you are mixed up between deficit annd debt and also on the cause of the deficit. Alistair Darling announced in March that the total cost of bailing out the banks was £9B in total (all the larger numbers were worst case loan guarantees which were not needed in the end). The cause of the deficit is the collapse in tax revenues caused by the evaporation of profits and confidence - and i agree that was caused by the banks. But to claim the banks are directly contributing to the deficit is just wrong.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01510366225334001245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-37693238092003342842010-10-24T10:49:28.709+01:002010-10-24T10:49:28.709+01:00Oh, and it's not just Iannucci.Oh, and it's <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10296/1097314-109.stm" rel="nofollow">not just Iannucci</a>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-47421539573959106552010-10-24T07:30:58.143+01:002010-10-24T07:30:58.143+01:00Have been reading Lynne Feather's unmediated b...Have been reading Lynne Feather's unmediated blog, and she has really had the bile thrown at her. Contributors seem to think that Clegg could say 'No' to something and it would not be done - known as a 'word event' in theological circles, I believe, but actually mythical. Overall, the LD effect seems to be to mitigate application of the Tory ideology, and I like it (even though financially the overall result is hitting my now part-time business hard).<br />As for taxing the bankers a lot more - I for one accept the argument that it would drive them away to another country.dreamingspirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00324207120279777521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-39536350121107740362010-10-24T03:20:41.786+01:002010-10-24T03:20:41.786+01:00"Then there is Jeffries' and Iannucci'...<i>"Then there is Jeffries' and Iannucci's shared lack of economic sense. How can the cuts not be be about economics "any longer" when the Coalition has only been in power for six months?"</i><br />When the economic outlook has significantly tilted towards a second downturn?<br /><br />You recall the idea of delaying the more painful cuts if there was a risk of exacerbating a crippling double-dip? <br /><br />(I didn't vote LibDem to get this government nor it's policies.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-19424410019704127282010-10-23T18:06:19.869+01:002010-10-23T18:06:19.869+01:00Except you've just gone and done the same thin...Except you've just gone and done the same thing, 'sensible' types who understand the need to wipe out the public sector vs Guardian readers.<br /><br />The fact is that the cuts are ideological and the Tory Government are shamefully using the deficit to put through changes that they would put through regardless - it's just that if we were in a better economic position the money saved would have been spent on tax cuts for the better off.<br /><br />Explain why, when on the one hand there are such brutal cuts to the welfare state we are restoring the link between State Retirement Pension and earnings? A measure that will cost billions and yet will only benefit better off pensioners as others will see the gain clawed back by loss of means tested benefits? Retirement Pension is by far the single biggest welfare expenditure at not far off half the total. Total working age benefits make up only 1/7.<br /><br />And why shouldn't tax be increased? Especially on the financial sector as the lions share of the deficit was spent on bailing them out yet they are still paying such huge bonuses. The Robin Hood Tax would solve around 2/3 of the budget deficit. They owe the country big time and they should be made to pay.<br /><br />Ever since their secondment to the Tory party LibDems seem to break with being blinded by the headlights of power only to search furiously for another long held policy to ditch and that's not what I voted for.<br /><br />You could stop this carnage right now if you wanted to but you're far too distracted by self interest. As a result, as a party you'll cease to exist at the next election.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03710776765139258627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-62413085075550318322010-10-23T17:43:57.677+01:002010-10-23T17:43:57.677+01:00But, just as when a political party adopts a core ...<i>But, just as when a political party adopts a core votes strategy, this risks putting off floating readers. Or even loyal readers like me who do not work in the public sector and would rather like an adult approach to the current political situation.</i><br /><br />Quite. I'm losing count of the number of times I've walked past the newsagent on my way to work, thought about buying a copy of the Graun, and then seen another silly overwrought headline and thought "meh - maybe I won't bother". It's as though someone flicked a switch the day the coalition was formed, and a paper which had been capable of some more serious-minded analysis (not always, but sometimes) just breathed a sigh of relief and descended into the simplistic bollocks of uncomplicated opposition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-52440008761904181222010-10-23T17:29:50.893+01:002010-10-23T17:29:50.893+01:00It's interesting you give Mark Steel as an exa...It's interesting you give Mark Steel as an example of the kind of simple-minded thinking you're talking about. I think one reason that I've always found him interesting and amusing is that although he obviously has very strong views, many of which I don't share, he's not a Labour loyalist and doesn't really demonise the Tories per se. Also, I appreciate he's a comedian, so I hold him to a different standard.<br /><br />On the other hand, in the same paper, you've got someone like Johann Hari, who's obviously a devoted Labourite whose columns feature epic battles between the glorious, shining angels of light in the Labour Party and the foul, deformed host of public schoolboys determined to steal candy out of the hands of babies, seen in the Coalition. He always uses the same (very selective) examples of how Clegg and Cameron are completely out of touch. Hari's columns are essentially comfort food for Labourites, nothing more, which is a shame for someone who's produced some absolutely fantastic investigative journalism in the past.Foregone Conclusionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15299377986312285047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-51059013668037009052010-10-23T17:01:13.010+01:002010-10-23T17:01:13.010+01:00I have been reading some of the comments by Guardi...I have been reading some of the comments by Guardian readers after the articles and have been genuinely shocked by some of the bile (as well as witlessness and incoherence) written. As you intimate there is a 'with us or against us' side to this, rather than any subtle analysis of options. It is not a budget I would have delivered if I had a free hand but it not the end of the world.<br />On the day that the disaster of Iraq was once again at the forefront Polly and her mates have completely forgotten the last 'with us or against us' time and the real suffering & death that came out of this. <br />The level of the debate has barely reached toddler level. Here's is my stab at a Polly column - more public money good; more government interference good - everything else bad/evil, people will die. Nanny Toynbee knows best. <br />Funny I must have been asleep since 2001 because I can't remember this golden age.Cornishjimnoreply@blogger.com