tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post7946174042833275079..comments2024-03-27T16:39:43.522+00:00Comments on Liberal England: The death of William MayneJonathan Calderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-5457125208803140022023-03-20T13:22:37.897+00:002023-03-20T13:22:37.897+00:00Thank you for your comment, Anonymous. I now think...Thank you for your comment, Anonymous. I now think CRB checks for writers who go into schools are necessary, though the point that every offender passes a check until he is caught remains.<br /><br />And it's hard to separate the artist and his work when you read that Mayne used his stories as a way of enticing the children he abused.<br /><br />I've not seen this sort of discussion of Mayne anywhere else, so I feel a certain responsibility in hosting it. Blogging is more permanent than social media.Jonathan Calderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-186498490459144322023-03-18T08:40:21.350+00:002023-03-18T08:40:21.350+00:00I went Googling for articles on WM today (I should...I went Googling for articles on WM today (I should add, I'd not done this before) and found this. The reason? It was my wife's aunty that bought the main charges against him, that eventually uncovered this foul man's deeds; my father-in-law, the basis for characters in many of the books. I understand the hurt feelings of those who find it hard to reconcile the public and the private nature of a 'beloved author', but he really did not get what he deserved i.e. the moment he attempted to revert his plea to 'not guilty' - showing no remorse or repentance - he should have spent the rest of his life in prison.<br /><br />I know that, being married since the 1970s to a very-well-off public figure, she certainly didn't bring those charges for financial gain and plaudits; the kind WM enjoyed for all but two-and-a-half years of his life. What she has - but WM never had, being a lonely paedophile - is an incredible extended family of children, grandchildren, and now great-grandchildren; a respected author for a husband (oh, the irony!) It's great to see, a decade on from his demise, that his own tower of mendacity lies in ruins, rubble. There was no coming back, nor should there be. Those who sought to defend him, or help with deflecting the accusations, should hang their heads in shame, because it's all true I'm afraid. WM was one sick b*stard, who deceived an entire community for decades.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-65623683582191824362019-07-09T21:14:50.915+01:002019-07-09T21:14:50.915+01:00He ruined mine. Took my virginity at 11 - forced h...He ruined mine. Took my virginity at 11 - forced himself<br />Upon me. Told me lies about my parents. Filled me with self hatred. He groomed at puffin club holidays and schools. Don’t be ridiculous. He ‘suffered’ half of 2.5 years. I’m in 57th year of suffer in silence just starting to work on closure having gained the strength to face it. - from 6 yr to 13 at family home and his home. Wrote books about my family and dedicated to me or us kids in family as part of the grooming. Sick. Did he end his own life ? Just found dead. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-2182747259796366552016-06-17T14:46:46.590+01:002016-06-17T14:46:46.590+01:00So William Mayne actually used the expression &quo...So William Mayne actually used the expression "Sunny Meadow" in real life? Strange that people can remember the same expression in a published book that now appears to have disappeared without trace ?!?! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-80897053031907325412015-07-18T07:18:34.173+01:002015-07-18T07:18:34.173+01:00I appreciate that you cannot agree, Karen, but I w...I appreciate that you cannot agree, Karen, but I would ask if you were his victim? I assume not, and therefore you are immured to the covert messages of abuse that those of us who were groomed by him or attacked by him can see in his work. I remember walking with him into my "sunny meadow" and I see shadowy parallels of my life in his characters. Some of his vignettes, the skin-on-skin of little girls, the stranger drying bathed children are sharp reminders of his abusive nature. The whole point about abuse is that it must be covert. As someone whom I assume was not abused by Mayne, Karen, is it possible that you are the naive audience to whom he played? Are you perhaps the sort of person whom, had you known him personally as an adult and as a mother of daughters, might have been awed by his "outstanding" books and flattered into allowing your daughters (whom he would have praised as intelligent, imaginative and inspiring) to go with him to Thornton Rust? If you knew nothing of the nature of his abuse and only of his apparent brilliance wouldn't that make you an ideal target as a mother or a reader? If you then read his books and noticed how your hero Mayne placed his own little heroines in conflict with their parents, spending nights away from them, lying in bed with others and being bathed by strangers you would have thought this " normal" and acceptable in a world populated by the "gifted" Mayne. And when he placed you in conflict with your parents and you and a friend spent a night with him at Thornton Rust it would seem quite acceptable if you were dried by a stranger. The clues are in the books. But they can only be seen by those who look and those whose eyes have been opened by his abusive nature. His work is part of the canon of all paedophiles who collectively groom children generation after generation into unsafe beliefs that render them more vulnerable to victimisation and should be eschewed as suchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-67571667110154380212014-05-30T10:44:43.405+01:002014-05-30T10:44:43.405+01:00I can't agree with this last post. William Ma...I can't agree with this last post. William Mayne was a human being and therefore experienced the world through his senses as we all do. As a writer, I would always try to show rather than tell as it's more vivid and real for the reader. That's what he was doing and it's why I loved his books as a child. What he did was wrong and vile but he was a good writer who knew his craft. Of course his view of the world will come through in his writing but, aside from that don't condemn the man for his craftsmanship. We will all read his books differently now and in some ways that is a real shame. It's a tragedy that someone with such talent felt a need to do what he did - as I understand it there were things that happened to him in his own life tthat might offer some explanation, though no excuse. He is dead now and his work cannot entice anymore children into his world, so let us let his work find a new level in the canon of children's literature.Karennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-15304563785898921132012-11-12T00:56:26.854+00:002012-11-12T00:56:26.854+00:00" TWO sisters together in the bath, ......TWO..." TWO sisters together in the bath, ......TWO sisters are together in the same bed, and we are told how Lesley "laid cold skin against warm skin"<br /><br />TWO girls.<br /><br />William James Carter Mayne very, very specifically invited me and another girl (a friend of mine) whom he met at the same time to Thornton Rust. We were to go TOGETHER and have lots of fun with other girls 'romping around" and specifically providing him with "inspiration for his books". I was so flattered to know I would be in a book.<br /><br />I hope I DIDN't turn up in those books. When he wrote "laid cold skin against warm skin" he was evoking an experience, something remembered or wished for or suggested to the reader. Something he as an adult man had to imagine in order to write. He himself had never experienced being a little girl in bed with another little girl. The skin of two girls one on another sharing a bed. An image that ONLY two LITTLE girls who were, as the image implies, totally innocent, could call to mind in all innocence. But this evocative passage is envisioned by an adult MAN who invited little girls to Thornton Rust in pairs. The same with the image of naked children being dried by a stranger after a bath. <br /><br />It was the fact that TWO girls were invited that made my parents feel safer and I remember there were instances of Jimmy Savile abusing girls in pairs or groups.<br /><br />The other phrase he uses that strikes me as inappropriate was "going steady" and after how many boyfriends one should "go steady" with a boy. It's in a short ghost story William Mayne wrote. "Going steady" and "romping" are both outmoded expressions now.<br /><br />I don't know much about the make-up of pedophiles but maybe there is a voyeuristic componant in addition to physically abusing children. Maybe what William Mayne was also doing was watching us as two children together.<br /><br />These are more than just subliminal messages as another poster wondered. These are concrete images of no value to the plot that William Mayne chose to envision and memorialise in his books.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-5266949558412180302012-11-11T13:50:26.798+00:002012-11-11T13:50:26.798+00:00"the trial decided nothing except that Willia..."the trial decided nothing except that William should go to prison"<br /><br />...And that he was <b>guilty</b>, of course. <br /><br />Guilty of a terrible, nasty crime against children. Little girls whom he sought out deliberately and enticed with promises of fame and a place in his books to Thornton Rust. Little girls whom he carefully groomed and selected by visiting them and touching them to see how they reacted. Little girls whose home addresses he harvested in the course of his work.<br /><br />How do I know? Because I knew him.<br /><br />What is particularly worrying about him is that he was able to delude adults that he had children's interests at heart and I note that several posters above obviously did not know him as well as they thought they did. Deception and lies are the stock-in-trade of the paedophile. I am quite sure there are some people who still think Jimmy Savile was a lovely old bloke who did nothing but good for the world.<br />William Mayne was exactly the same. A selfish predator who happily and successfully deceived others in order to gain access to little girls.<br /><br />The books reflect the man. The use of deception, magic and the unreal permitted him to weave an aura of unreality around his victims; to diminish their credibility and ensure they were viewed as simply "over-imaginative".<br /><br />The clock can be turned back. By ensuring that this disgraceful predator is continually held up as an example of what is possible when paedophiles are given positions of trust with children, society can make provisions to ensure that we better protect our children in future.<br /><br />To see William Mayne as anything but a paedophile is to be complicit in the ongoing abuse of other children. By tacitly averting your eyes from his past crimes you imply we might do the same with current criminals.<br /><br />We should all strive to ensure that all children are safe from paedophiles. The first step is to acknowledge William Mayne as a criminal and to ensure others are not able to follow in his abusive footsteps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-300950373690787412012-10-28T05:49:37.738+00:002012-10-28T05:49:37.738+00:00I knew William in the late 80's and 90's. ...I knew William in the late 80's and 90's. He regularly visited the local school and drew the children's imagination.I could not believe when he was arrested. I had friends whose children regularly visited him at home. They were very astute and bright kids. If there had been anything at all suspicious or anything that made them feel uncomfortable, they would have very clearly said. Let yhe man rest in peace. What is done is done. The clock cannot be turned back. The people who brought these charges against him tried that and ruined his life.Donnahttp://brookekbryantp.tumblr.com/post/31179228279/strategies-on-how-to-create-good-quality-web-designnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-47126329015380915362010-10-18T13:56:15.710+01:002010-10-18T13:56:15.710+01:00Ravensgill, end of Chapter 12, [Judith]..."st...Ravensgill, end of Chapter 12, [Judith]..."started a romping game with Christine Hammerton, a great romper."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-54452481126354711642010-10-05T12:43:14.741+01:002010-10-05T12:43:14.741+01:00The characters pictured on the front cover of Summ...The characters pictured on the front cover of Summer Visitors are Michael Taylor and Mary Atkinson. The book has an inscription - "For Mary." The lead character in A Grass Rope was also called Mary. Many names tend to crop up again and again in Mayne's books:<br /><br />Michael<br />Andrew<br /><br />Mary<br />Sue/Susan<br />Debby/Deborah<br />Becky/Rebecca<br />Sara/SarahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-78956014374877764042010-09-28T11:20:49.960+01:002010-09-28T11:20:49.960+01:00Thanks very much, next week will be fine. I've...Thanks very much, next week will be fine. I've not read Royal Harry but I think my sister has an old copy of it somewhere so I'll try to give it a look.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-4730595375180059392010-09-27T18:16:23.740+01:002010-09-27T18:16:23.740+01:00I've got a copy of summer visitors. I'll h...I've got a copy of summer visitors. I'll hunt it out and post up a synopsis but it won't be before next week if thats okay with you...Its set in Askrigg if I remember rightly...<br />Incidentally, have you read Royal Harry...that concerns a girl left a place in a will as I recall.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-83451443614999496662010-09-26T17:55:46.547+01:002010-09-26T17:55:46.547+01:00What are you looking for in this book? Why this o...What are you looking for in this book? Why this one?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-48295054113178724792010-09-24T18:30:08.666+01:002010-09-24T18:30:08.666+01:00I appreciate that but the cheapest copy is £7.50 p...I appreciate that but the cheapest copy is £7.50 plus £2.75 postage and packing, I lost my job nearly two years ago so I'm a bit strapped right now. I'd fork out a tenner but only if I definitely knew it was the book I'm after. <br />It seems that only "first editions" of Summer Visitors are on the market which might mean that it didn't get past its first print run in 1961 ie not as successful as some of William Mayne's other titles. Something like Earthfasts isn't as rare so you can pick it up on Amazon for a penny plus postage. Not so with Summer Visitors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-1291478241819882892010-09-23T20:38:11.963+01:002010-09-23T20:38:11.963+01:00You can get the book on AmazonYou can get the book on AmazonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-79276787504208982742010-09-20T14:16:54.365+01:002010-09-20T14:16:54.365+01:00Hi, does anyone out there have access to a copy of...Hi, does anyone out there have access to a copy of William Mayne's book "Summer Visitors"? This is all I've managed to find out about it on the net. <br />"Michael, a boy from an industrial town finds life at a summer camp in the Dales lonely until he is given the job of fetching milk. <br />Publisher: Oxford University Press<br />Publication Date: 1961<br />Binding: Hard Cover"<br />Also I've seen on the net a picture of the front cover, what looks like a boy giving a girl a churn of milk. Presumably the boy is Michael but who is the girl and where does she come into the story?<br />Many thanks to anyone who can help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-61244596758435903032010-09-13T12:25:45.809+01:002010-09-13T12:25:45.809+01:00Just to add to my post at 12.15, I went into my to...Just to add to my post at 12.15, I went into my town centre a couple of days ago, first visiting the library. In the 70s there would always be a row of William Mayne books, now there are none. None of the books are available to buy new. I also went to a second hand bookshop and asked if they have any William Mayne books in stock. The man told me "I get offered them now and again but I never stock them because I don't think anyone would buy them." So it looks like, to some extent, the books have censored themselves with help from market forces. Okay so you can still get cheap second hand copies on Amazon but authors and their estates don't get royalties from second hand books, what goes around comes around...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-71902991441909566872010-09-13T12:15:07.414+01:002010-09-13T12:15:07.414+01:00@ anon 12 September.
That's very interesting. ...@ anon 12 September.<br />That's very interesting. As I've said before, I holidayed in Thornton Rust as a child (in the early 70s.) Although tourism was on the increase then, the village was still essentially rural with many of the people involved in dairy farming and the like. Then, living among them all, was the "eccentric author chappie", affectionately known as Willie, who seemed to be so much different and so much more affluent with his expensive cars and roving bachelor lifestyle. It doesn't surprise me now that he used his wealth to his advantage, even on what today would seem like little things such as hot baths.<br />Earlier in this thread someone called "Richard" suggested that Mayne's book shouldn't now be shunned because, in Richard's view, they seem to be separate from the author's crimes. I have to disagree with this. To me the books include characters, incidents and even snatches of dialogue that very much cross-refer to the author's crimes. Parents etc ought to bear this in mind before recommending these tainted books to modern young readers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-33244913255128509282010-09-12T19:17:22.653+01:002010-09-12T19:17:22.653+01:00At the time he was writing, a lot of families eith...At the time he was writing, a lot of families either did not have baths in the sense of how they are today (plumbed in etc) or they did not have limitless hot water. He had both, which he could use to his advantage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-63845442923983092442010-09-12T11:50:47.781+01:002010-09-12T11:50:47.781+01:00Here is a further example, another "two young...Here is a further example, another "two young sisters in the bath" scene this time in Over the Hills and Far Away (Second Part, Chapter 6). Only this time the girls are bathed and dried by a total stranger. Then some kids together in bed at the end of Chapter 7. Did this guy have a bath fetish? Another strange thing about Over the Hills and Far Away is that the copyright date is 1955 but, according to all internet sources, it was first published in 1968. Why the 13 year delay? Did Oxford University Press block it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-91794183107497727052010-09-11T13:40:28.119+01:002010-09-11T13:40:28.119+01:00Then maybe, in attributing that line of dialogue t...Then maybe, in attributing that line of dialogue to the Debby character, Mayne was trying to fool himself and everyone else into thinking that young females have similarly possessive thoughts about adult males. <br />As for bathtime and bedroom scenes, I guess if they'd been in an Enid Blyton book no one would bat an eyelid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-54506304378045781012010-09-11T12:20:07.954+01:002010-09-11T12:20:07.954+01:00The only one of those examples that strikes me is ...The only one of those examples that strikes me is the comment "Well, you can't have him, he's mine". I see this as an example of Mayne's getting his characters to speak his own words; he made such a possessive statement about a girl he believed he owned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-40534353892994181602010-09-11T12:19:19.162+01:002010-09-11T12:19:19.162+01:00The only one of those examples that strikes me is ...The only one of those examples that strikes me is the comment "Well, you can't have him, he's mine". I see this as an example of Mayne's getting his characters to speak his own words; he made such a possessive statement about a girl he believed he owned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-35432482161536348472010-09-10T11:52:33.643+01:002010-09-10T11:52:33.643+01:00@ Anon earlier today.
Maybe he was correct or may...@ Anon earlier today.<br /><br />Maybe he was correct or maybe it just felt that way, he was without doubt an intelligent and charismatic man. As for The Battlefield, the book is dedicated to someone called Becky although the main characters are two sisters Lesley and Debby Musgrave - they seem to be 8-10 years old. At the end of chapter 3 we have a description of the two sisters together in the bath, perfectly innocent perhaps but then again maybe not. At the start of Chapter 4 the two sisters are together in the same bed, and we are told how Lesley "laid cold skin against warm skin" etc. Then in chapter 8 the sisters are discussing an adult character called Thomas:<br />Debby: Well you can't have him, he's mine.<br />Lesley: Don't be soft. I want to borrow his tractor, that's all. You can have him after.<br /><br />Maybe I'm looking for things that aren't there but I would say there are subliminal messages here at the very least.<br /><br />I still haven't remembered the title of the "sunny meadow" story!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com