tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post8204930777247823965..comments2024-03-28T22:32:50.562+00:00Comments on Liberal England: Did we want to defeat Brexit or just to feel superior?Jonathan Calderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00730157683743989696noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-4190970896612067672020-08-24T17:36:33.240+01:002020-08-24T17:36:33.240+01:00Can't disagree with Nigel at all - There are l...Can't disagree with Nigel at all - There are lot of problems, issues and difficulties to overcome, and lots of scope for disagreement on them, but in essence our strategy for 10 years has been hope it will all go away. Well the one thing that is still most likely to go away is the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Overall, I doubt if there are 50 seats across the whole country we would have a chance of winning, and more than 50% of our seats would be lost at a general election if the incumbent did not stand, so we need a phenomenally good break of luck for us to make progress, and I sadly don't see either of our leadership candidates doing more than enthusing a small number of true believers, however much cut through they may claim to have with the media.<br /><br />At the end of it, 90% of any recovery will be down to the poor bloody infantry - As it always was :-(David Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616555999475880783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-19966758015655206912020-08-24T15:30:22.826+01:002020-08-24T15:30:22.826+01:00Yes education is how everybody learns.It is an ong...Yes education is how everybody learns.It is an ongoing process throughout life and should not be ignored.Pride does go before a fall and I can agree on a review.<br />Although we can feel superior!? It does not help to change peoples minds.Pointing out weaknesses of Brexit should be discussed with Brexiteers and the consequences of those decisions. One ,for example could be that Tate and Lyle sugar (American owned) lobbied for an increase in their ability to import sugar into the UK. By leaving the EU rules and regulations our sugar beet farmers could be at risk of going out of business and standards will drop. Could lead to a US monopoly on sugar.Brexiteers instead of being 'looked down upon' should be informed ,sensibly of what we will loose nigel hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09365383918453700768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6606798.post-3413741547311410742020-08-24T03:35:43.008+01:002020-08-24T03:35:43.008+01:00I'm not sure whether it was feeling superior t...I'm not sure whether it was feeling superior that was the prime motivation for most Remainers, but it clearly was a factor for many. Too many people tweeting and messaging to their friends, but doing nothing difficult like trying to influence anyone else. However, in the case of many Lib Dems it seems that believing that they are right is most important, even more important than being successful. <br /><br />Hence in coalition, most Lib Dems were prepared to ignore the fact that the party was clearly being destroyed year after year, than accept that they had got it personally wrong in supporting Nick Clegg. Even after the final debacle in May 2014, when we lost all but one of our MEPs and seats in London were lost massively, most local parties did not hold a vote or even a debate on Nick's leadership. <br /><br />Even now when some people accept that mistakes were made in coalition, and others sagely nod and agree, they still insist we now must move on as if saying 'We made a mistake' is sufficient and an end to the problem. The one thing they will never admit is that the party has never debated, discussed or agreed what went wrong and why - indeed everyone has their own personal explanation as to what went wrong, usually founded on a view that what they did was fine, it was just 'other people' who made a mess of it. Of course for some, coalition was quite simply 'the right thing to do,' even if it destroy our party. The fact that it then led to the referendum, Brexit etc is nothing to do with us - it's just the fault of those nasty Tories.<br /><br />Indeed the possibility that we need to review and agree what went wrong, if only so that we learn the lessons as a party, and future generations of Lib Dems won't make the same mistakes again is just beyond their comprehension. <br /> It is almost as if education is a good thing, but only for other people. The possibility that Liberals like them actually do need to learn because they did make a mess of things just does not compute.David Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09616555999475880783noreply@blogger.com