Can the rest of the United Kingdom afford Scottish independence?

Discussing John Barrett's views on Scottish independence earlier this month I wrote:

were I Scottish, if anything could convince me to vote for independence it would be being told that I could not afford it. I would be strongly tempted to vote Yes just to spite such a foolish argument.

Malcolm Bruce, the new deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, does not think it is a foolish argument. He puts an unusually forceful version of it in his interview with Caron Lindsay for Liberal Democrat Voice:

The rest of the UK is not going to indulge a Scotland that’s decided to leave and it’s not going to allow Scotland to go off on a financial frolic on its own, underwritten by the rest of the UK, without any conditions or constraints. So in some ways Scotland would be in a weaker position in terms of its economic management if it was independent than it is in the UK. 

If you have a Plan B, which they don’t, but you’re forced into it because you cannot get the deal you want, therefore you know your promises are undeliverable, you try to relaunch the groat where you’ve got no central bank with any track record, or anybody in it, the currency’s new and you’ve started your arrangement with a default. Then try and raise bonds on the stock market. Scotland would be bankrupt within weeks.

Malcolm may be right, then nationalism has always had more to do with emotion than it has with reason.

What is interesting is his claim that the rest of the UK will not allow Scotland to go its own way while underwriting its debts.

So far the Bank of England has said it will be happy to underwrite Scotland's debt, but this surely cannot be a permanent answer. This would be recipe for irresponsibility on the part of the new Scottish state and you cannot ask the people of the rest of the UK to underwrite policies over which they have no say.

So the question becomes, not can Scotland afford Scottish Independence, but can the rest of the United Kingdom afford Scottish independence?

Getting a Yes vote in the referendum may prove to be only the beginning of the SNP's problems. It could all get very unpleasant, and how can these questions be settled in the absence of amicable relations between the two governments?

John Barrett goes his own way on the Liberal Democrats and Scottish independence

John Barrett, who was Liberal Democrat MP for Edinburgh West between 2001 and 2010, has an article in The Scotsman today. He has some uncompromising things to say about the direction the Lib Dems have taken and about the Scottish referendum debates.

On the Lib Dems he writes:

the fact that the party I joined over 30 years ago bears little resemblance in policy terms to the Liberal Democrats now in government at Westminster. I have not changed my views on opposition to university tuition fees, Trident nuclear missiles and the construction of new nuclear power stations. 

More recently ... the defeat of the government over military action in Syria was something I welcomed. I was stunned to see those party grandees who were at the heart of opposing going to war in Iraq now advocating military action – before inspectors had completed their work. My, how times have changed. 

In Scotland, I was at a Lib-Dem conference when it wholeheartedly opposed the bedroom tax, with not one MP in the room speaking up in favour of government policy, while it still remains something my party in government at Westminster supports. No wonder the public in Scotland drifted away in large numbers from the party at both the last set of Holyrood and council elections.

On the independence debate John says his instinct as a Lib Dem is to advocate a future for Scotland as part of a federal United Kingdom.

However, he is critical of the way the independence debate is being conducted by both sides:

The economic arguments from both sides are as expected and they are locked into positions which will not change. The separatists say we will all be better off and the Unionists say we will be worse off in an independent Scotland. They would say that, wouldn’t they? I don’t expect either side to admit the truth, which is that neither side knows exactly what the position will be after the referendum and following elections, regardless of the result.

And the poor quality of this debate is not just the fault of the politicians, John argues:

If in the run-up to the referendum they only ask “What is in it for me?”, they will be offered a range of unaffordable promises by both sides and should then not be surprised when those promises are not delivered.

Instead, he concludes:

What we should be getting from both sides is a clear picture of the Scotland they want to develop for generations to come. I want to see a fairer country at home, with access to a high quality health and education system for all, regardless of ability to pay; a compassionate and considerate country, where those who are able care for those who are less able; a greener country with sustainable energy production at an affordable price; and an internationalist country supporting peace-keeping obligations and those abroad less fortunate than ourselves, while avoiding any involvement in destructive military interventions, where civilians suffer more than anyone else. If this is the Scotland of the future, it is what I will vote for. It is also something that can only be delivered if Scots are prepared to participate in delivering that future: accepting increased personal responsibility will be part of the bargain. 

Unfortunately neither side in the referendum debate has convinced me so far. Many people like me are now undecided on the referendum issue and are waiting for an honest vision for the future of Scotland from both sides.

My vote is not up for sale – it is there to be won by those who can spell out their vision of a Scotland my grandchildren will want to grow up in.

Nationalism can easily turn to racism and there is something silly about making it the basis of a party's ideology in a modern Western democracy. Why is one health, education of social security policy more Scottish than another? If social democracy or socialism is bound up in Scottish national identity, as some argue, how come the Conservatives held more than half the seats in Scotland in the 1950s?

But, were I Scottish, if anything could convince me to vote for independence it would be being told that I could not afford it. I would be strongly tempted to vote Yes just to spite such a foolish argument.

John Barrett interviewed in the Scotsman

The Lib Dem MP for Edinburgh West, who is retiring at this year's general election, has an interesting angle on the expenses scandal:

"When I was a councillor, I had staff, IT, a desk and an office to work in. When I became an MP I was told, 'Go out, find an office, rent it from the landlord, get hold of your IT, pay your bills and claim the money back.

"Until that's swept away, until MPs are given the tools to do the job, it will be a major distraction and we'll never restore public trust."

And trivia fan will enjoy knowing that:

At Carrick Knowe Primary School, he played for the school team against nearby Broomhouse Primary, whose players included Graeme Souness.

And later he had a trial for Partick Thistle, but was rejected.

My Lib Dem News article on the bloggers unconference

Alex Foster treated the day with commedable seriousness

From Friday's issue.

Techies and Norse blood at Bloggers' "Unconference"

Liberal Democrats do not like being organised. Nor do bloggers. So when the first get together for Liberal Democrat bloggers took place last Saturday, it was inevitable that it would be billed as an “Unconference”.

And where should such free spirits meet but Edinburgh? As G. K. Chesterton once wrote, "It seems like a city built on precipices, a perilous city. Great roads rush down hill like rivers in spate. Great buildings rush up like rockets."

The select group of bloggers who made the journey to the Scottish party’s office at Clifton Terrace, in the centre of the city near Haymarket railway station, were rewarded with a full and entertaining day.

We argued about the best blogging platform to use, discussed ways of blogging on the move from your mobile phone and were given expert tuition on making podcasts by Liberal Democrat Voice’s Alex Foster.

The Unconference was well supported by the Liberal Democrat great and good, with three parliamentarians looking in to be interviewed.

John Barrett, who will be standing down as MP for Edinburgh West at the next election, was in bright form and upbeat about our prospects in Scotland at that election. He has long been a blogger himself, and spoke about his experience of using that blog to keep his constituents informed.

Interestingly, he does not allow comments on his blog, fearing it would descend into the sort of madhouse you sometimes find online, but is happy to correspond with individual voters by email.

Jo Swinson, the Lib Dem MP for East Dumbartonshire, arrived from the airport having just delivered a speech on the global economic crisis to a United Nations conference in New York. She needed no technical advice from anyone at the Unconference: as well as a website she has a Youtube channel to which she uploads campaign videos. We watched one of her presenting a constituency petition on climate change at the front door of 10 Downing Street.

In between these two MPs, we were visited by Tavish Scott who is the leader of the Liberal Democrats at Holyrood.

His Shetland background and constituency gives him a very different perspective on politics. Here is a man who once travelled with a troupe of Viking in full regalia – the Jarl Squad – to the opening of the Scottish Parliament.

You could feel this Norse blood stirring as he spoke with contempt of Scottish Nationalism in general and Alex Salmond in particular. He was clear, though, that if devolution is to continue to flourish then Scotland would have to start raising a large proportion of its own tax revenues. And he was adamant that England must find a way of combating its own democratic deficit.

Tavish also reminisced about his time in the Whips office at Westminster with future stars like Ed Davey, Adrian Sanders and Norman Baker. He made the experience sound rather like a situation comedy – think The Thick of It meets Men Behaving Badly.

A regular series of unconferences for Lib Dem bloggers would help us learn from one another, encourage debate among Liberals and enable us to find ways of helping the party during and between elections.

But wherever these unconferences are held, it will be hard to compete with the cakes on offer at this first event or with Edinburgh itself.

As Alexander Smith wrote in 1865:

“Living in Edinburgh there abides above all things, a sense of its beauty. Hill, crag, castle, rock, blue stretch of sea, the picturesque ridge of the Old Town, the squares and terraces of the New these things once seen are not to be forgotten.”

Leading Scots Lib Dems to attend first Bloggers Unconference

Word reaches us that some big names will be looking in on the first Lib Dem Bloggers Unconference in Edinburgh on 21 November.

They include Tavish Scott, John Barrett, Mike Crockart (newly selected PPC for Edinburgh West) and Jo Swinson.

We hope this will be the first of many informal get-togethers for Liberal Democrat bloggers. Further details on Liberal Democrat Voice.

Fear and loathing in Edinburgh West

A couple of weeks ago John Barrett announced that he will be standing down as MP for Edinburgh West at the next election.

SNP Tactical Voting alleges that this is causing ructions amongst Edinburgh Lib Dems:

Kevin Lang, the Lib Dem candidate for Edinburgh North & Leith, is alleged to be very annoyed at the news that John Barratt is retiring as the MP for the neighbouring Edinburgh West constituency.

Apparently Kevin has lived in Edinburgh West all of his life and the pair recently had a big conversation about Kevin's future and Barratt basically said that he had no plans of going anywhere anytime soon so Lang should stick in with another seat.

Kevin is well and truly confirmed as the Lib Dem candidate in North & Leith, Barratt is due to step down from Ed West so Kevin can't go for the highly attractive vacancy.

John Barrett to stand down in Edinburgh West

John Barrett is to stand down as MP for Edinburgh West at the next election, announces The Scotsman (and lost of Lib Dem blogs too).

As a service to ambitious young activists attracted by "the second largest Lib Dem majority in the whole of the UK after Charles Kennedy," here is a good site for finding accommodation in Edinburgh.

Iraqi interpreters campaign latest

Dan Hardie has a new posting about his campaign for Iraqi interpreters who have worked for British forces to be granted asylum here.

He is keen that people who supports him should write to their MPs:

There are two reasons for this. We will need, first of all, to see which MPs are sympathetic to this cause. If Government policy has not changed by the time Parliament returns from the Summer recess, we will need to think about a face-to-face lobbying effort. Secondly, it is possible that MPs may be briefed by their front benches to send with stonewalling replies; some may even attempt to justify the policy. We need to identify these arguments so that they can be knocked down as speedily as possible.

He also reprints a helpful reply from John Barrett, the Liberal Democrat MP for Edinburgh West.

From Brackley to the Lincolnshire coast

Today's House Points from Liberal Democrat News.

Home truths

Evenin’ all. We’ve had a nasty gang in Dock Green this week: Jumbo Clarke and his henchmen. That’s Mauler Mactaggart, Nasty McNulty, Andy “The Card” Burnham and Asbo Blears. (There’s also Paul Goggins, but he’s too boring to have a nickname.)

Thank you, PC Dixon. Home office questions made it clear why Charles Clarke keeps that crew round him. They are the only people in the Commons who make him look good by comparison.

Take Tony McNulty. When it comes to being rude, not even Clarke can compete. On Monday he accused Julian Brazier of confusing six different aspects of government policy. And he greeted Nick Clegg’s first question as Lib Dem shadow home secretary with: “As ever, the honourable gentleman … is wrong. He should read things other than the Guardian and get a life.”

That made Charles Clarke sound almost reasonable when he announced plans to merge police forces. Here in the East Midlands, for instance, he wants to combine five into one force covering everywhere from Brackley to the Lincolnshire coast.

Clarke took the first questions of this restructuring, but left the rest to Hazel Blears. It was she who deployed what the home office sees as its clinching argument. Forces must “be certain that they can cope with increased threats from serious and organised crime, and can counter terrorism”.

Never mind traditions of local accountability and mistrust of an overmighty state: whisper the word “terrorism” and we are supposed to throwaway everything we believe in. The problem with today’s world is not that terrorists believe in their cause so strongly: it’s that the democracies’ belief in theirs is so weak.

Just as McNulty makes Clarke look civilised, Blears and Andy Burnham makes him look like an intellectual. For, at the same time as defending her slaughter of county police forces, Blears was insisting on the importance of neighbourhood policing.

And when John Barrett asked Burnham how the government would accommodate the Scottish Executive’s wish not to use identity cards for access to devolved services, he rambled on about how popular the “biometrics roadshow” had proved with the public.

So that’s the home office view. If only we could abolish all these counties and national parliaments, the government would be able to make local accountability work.